son of God, husband to Cheryl, daddy to three, undershepherd of Anna First Baptist Church, avid outdoorsman, terrible golfer, frustrated author, wilderness wanderer
Pastor Tony’s Place
Christian living, theology, family, sports, humor, etc…
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Lost your e mail address. can you send it to me.
Hello Pastor Tony,
I enjoyed visiting your site. Also looked around at Anna Baptist. Good to view from Red Bluff, Ca. JN
http://www.thelifeandtimesofjay.blogspot.com
by any chance are you Pastor Tony from los Angeles? Do you remember a korean girl Veree Chang?
Nope. Not from LA. Never been “wester” than Kansas.
I am waiting for a response from you pastor tony
dfortruth….
Here’s your response.
Your internet name should be “D-for spelling”.
Pastor Tony
From all the recent comments (that go on and on and on), it seems dfortruth has a lot in common with Joe Biden. Whereas Biden likes to hear himself talk, dfortruth likes to read what he writes.
Love covers a multitude of sins. Even if I can not spell, I can read.
And I can discern the Spirit of Truth, from the spirit of error. you seem to have more in common with the devil than Christ.
You like to put people down.
dfortruth-
I’m not sure that you can discern truth from error. In one of your prior replies, you believed that McCain wanted to “literally” go to hell to chase down Bin Laden. When clearly he was speaking figuratively. Come on!
You say that I seem to have more in common with the devil than with Christ. Read Ephesians 2 and Romans 3. We all have more in common with the devil. That’s why we need a Savior.
I can’t find a “Contact Me” link anywhere on your blog, so I’ll just post here.
I was excited to find constructive dialog on a Christian blog when I did a simple Google search for “Christians for Obama.” You were the #3 link.
After skimming the posts and finding those by Jodi particularly compelling and well-thought-out, I was disappointed to see your conclusion at the end. I respectfully disagree with you, hoping that you would at least agree to disagree.
Blessings to you and your flock,
Andrew
Dear Ps Tony,
May God bless you and your precious family. I’m a Taiwanese living in Australia, but am also quite concerned about the US Presidential Election on 4 Nov 2008. Your Blog thus draws my attention. I honestly believe that the abortion issue is also a good testing stone of a political leader’s integrity, and the Bible commands us to speak for the ones who cannot voice for themselves. I’ve been praying for God’s mercy on the nation. May He grant the righteous leaders McCain/Palin to govern the country on 4 Nov. God bless America!
The Bible also commands us to fear God, not the face of people. God condemns gay marriage not because He hates people but the work of darkness. Sin attempts to distort everything He created beautiful. I have a homosexual colleague who could not stop blaspheming the Bible; yet the Lord told me to be kind to him for he had gone through something bad. Later he confessed that as a child he was raped by his own brother. Also, a lesbian acquaintance I met who was raped by her own father. I said a short prayer for her after she left. Many months after I met her again on a train, she told me that she now knew that God loved her and she was also on a rehabilitation program from drug abuse.
God bless you on your views regarding the upcoming election! Let us all continue to pray for this country until Nov. 4th, and well into the near future. It is much needed!
God bless!
~J
Tony,
Wow, I read a blog where it was asked of people to state, If a christian, why they would vote for obama/biden. I then found it very disturbing to see it turn into a debate about only one issue. Abortion. Now, I am a christian and I am probably not as versed as alot of people. But didn’t Jesus say that all Sin is equal? That being a thief, is just as bad as murder? that one kind of murder isn’t better than another kind of murder? So, Wouldn’t abortion and Murder in War both be the same sin?
I would think that it would be obvious that McCain supporting a troop surge can lead to murder, Just as Obama supporting Abortion leads to murder. They both sin, Just like me and you. Maybe, since both candidates have sins supported on both sides. We need to choose according to the issues that don’t involve moral judgments? I do not know. I get just as confused as everyone else about these things and the people that seem so resolute about one side or the other confuse me more. I will vote. but i will not post it on a site. I have the utmost respect for both candidates and as an american and a christian will pray for both and whoever wins this election. THey will need everyones prayers, Supporters or not. May God Bless America.
Hey everybody! I am a Christian, and am very confident in my decision to vote for Barack Obama in the upcoming election. He is an inclusive figure who seems to embrace the Christianity I know and love (He is and always was against the Iraq war). Americans should not “play God” nor should we kill innocent people, or attack countries for political agendas. Jesus is the moral compass that guides my life, and I don’t see what part of the Bible gives any indication Jesus would be pro genocide in Iraq. That said, Obama is pro-choice, which isn’t biblical either. But this is only his view, he himself doesn’t make the decision to kill an innocent baby, it would be the state, the community, and the women who ultimately makes this choice. The commander in chief on the other hand, is fully accountable for the deaths that result from his/her decision to go to war.
It is my belief that Christians need to work hard to encourage our youth to make the correct decisions regarding pregnancies, and keeping their virginity until marriage. Both candidates have openly (including their running mates) said they are pro gay rights. This is another bothersome and unfortunately somewhat mainstream view these days.
I also believe that as Christian voters, we need to have better judgment that to only vote for the candidate who is pro-life, as the Bible is not a book that talks about Roe V Wade. It gives us so much more criteria we can use to choose a candidate. For example John McCain’s “attacks” lately, it could be argued, have caused a devisive mean spirited, and in some situations violent social stimulant across the country. Whereas I think Barack shows a more cool tempered and inclusive nature.
We need to look at all the issues, and all the criteria that Jesus taught us in the New Testiment. For example I believe the Bible’s message on homosexuality is much clearer than It’s message on abortion. Even so, we must examine other elements these potential presidents may or may not be biblically in tune with scripture on. This is how I made my decision for Obama, and it was a hard one. I will respectively disagree with others, and I just pray that God’s will be done, and that this election will soon be over so we can all take a deep breath and relax…
Like Andrew above…in searching for some thoughtful, balanced Christian perspectives to challenge my conscience on the presidential election I was intrigued to read the first third of the responses in “Christisans for Obama” but then very disappointed that at the end where you broke your own rule of “keeping it civil and [not] being a moron” with the way you ended the blog…for your readers I’ll continue…I have been a white pro-life evangelical born again Christian for over 30y and never voted democrat for pres in my life…but I find myself being ashamed and angry at the republican party and conservative capitalists and feel more and more like the repub’s pander to the evangelicals (like me) with the identical goal of the way that the dem’s pander to the minorities…and I made a concious decision to exclude my pro-life litmus test from my voting decision for president this year. Matter of fact I am seeking and embracing a WWJesusD perspective on anything in the democratic platform that deserves it…and I find lots to embrace. My intention (in this experiment) is to defend my Christianity from the other side of the political aisle with the hope that I will find mercy, understanding, conversation, and patience extended (as I pursue my ‘covert plan’ to convert the world to Christ) and a wider audience to cast my own net into (for Christ). So far I have incensed many of my Christian aquaintances but none has accepted even the possibility that my intention is a Godly one. My naive thought is that “my” [futuristic] third party will be pro-life in conscience and practice (but not in legislation); will be the steward of the environment we are expected to be (even if it costs the world trillions in petro revenues in the short run); will feed and love the poor into the concept of responsibility (even if my taxes have to go up to do it because “love is patient…etc.”); and will approach problems in the world with an imperfect but Jesus centered humility even if doesn’t maintain it’s “lift” in the current political wind of the day. If you look back at trends in our collective politics you will see that both parties are trending away from God into their own form of ‘misplaced worsip’ (or idolatry) be it toward money or be it toward debauchery…it’s all misplaced worship. Feel free to respond and thanks for the space.
Eddy-Two things….The dialogue here has not only been about one issue. And you are mistaken if you believe that abortion and war are the same. Abortion is the murder of an innocent life. Warfare is unfortunate. But it is sometimes necessary and even scripturally mandated. Read your Bible. Or find someone who is more “versed”, as you say. You are correct in that we need to pray for whomever wins this election.
Bryan-McCain has more of the right kind of experience than Obama, McCain will be a better commander-in-chief than Obama, McCain’s economic plan will keep jobs here in America (what do you think big businesses are going to do when they get taxed to the tune of 50%?), Obama’s tax plan is borderline socialism, he said in a planned parenthood rally that the first thing he intends to do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice act (that will HARDLY reduce the number of abortions in this country), McCain has more experience writing significant legislation and reaching across party lines to get it passed. If Obama’s ideas were “doable” and in the best interests of this country why didn’t he attempt to try any of that in his home state that so desperately needs it? He has a democratic governor and a democratic majority in the state legislature? Obama has already gone back on his tax cut plan from over $250k per year to $200k per year. And Biden even said it will likely be closer to $150k. When will you people see it? Obama is bad for this country!
Jeff Scott-my closure of the comments on that particular post was hardly moronic, as you suggest. But thanks for your kind words and for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Everything that could possibly be said had already been said…at least twice. And there’s nothing necessarily original in your “sermon” either. If you want to keep drinking the Obama kool-aid, go ahead. He seems to have tickled your itching ears.
Hi Tony-
Please stop defining Christianity as based on two, and only two, pillars: abortion and homosexuality. Of course we agree that they are both wrong, but it seems that only believing in your narrow understanding of these issues, is how you base your notion of a who a true follower of Jesus Christ is. In case you didn’t notice, Jesus never spoke of abortion, and he never said that we needed to waste time legislating homosexuality into the Constitution. And debating these two things, and especially only believing in your view of what the law should say about them, are not what makes a Christian. (I personally do not support either, but, come on, you’re making these the pillars of your church!! I do however believe in, as a gift from my Father, free choice, a choice to follow him.) My Father does not appreciate the narrowness of your message. He, btw, would rather you understand that He is for a candidate that is for the service, welfare, and fairness of all people, and for the well-being of all his creatures and his environment, and the condition of our hearts, based on free will, which He gave to us. He didn’t make America a theocracy for a reason. If this is what you want, there’s plenty of them in the Middle East. I might help you pack your bags.
You seem to base the only path to righteousness and salvation on following your absolute belief about abortion and homosexuality. I’m sure we know how God feels about them, but we also know how He gave us all free-will, and a choice to follow Him. If this was not given, how would He know who would really choose him? And while we’re at it, why don’t we write a law against pre-marital sex? Where does it end? Do you think that He might want there to be choice? And that this might be part of His plan for America, to see who will really follow Him? Open your mind. And please stop redefining Christianity on your incomprehensibly narrow terms, while excluding the remainder of Jesus’ message. Or please stop calling yourself a pastor.
Wow….the Apostle Paul has commented on my blog. Of course, this probably isn’t the real Apostle Paul. The real Apostle Paul wouldn’t encourage people to “open your mind”. He would want people to open their Bibles instead.
The real apsotle Paul would want his praxis to follow his theology, not the other way around.
The real apostle Paul would never talk about the issue of “fairness”. For the cross puts that notion out of the Christian vocabulary altogether.
The real apostle Paul understood what a “straw man” argument is. And he would never engage in one.
And the real Apostle Paul would use his real name and have the backbone to take some ownership in his judgmental and condeming comments.
I don’t define Christianity on only two issues. I DO define the major (but not only) kingdom issues in this election as abortion and homosexuality.
I don’t determine true believers from non-believers on the basis of their vote.
I am getting weary, however, with the hermeneutical gymnastics that so-called believers are using to justify their votes.
Read Psalm 14, Isaiah 53, and Romans 3. If the choice in coming to Christ was left up to us, no one would come.
Open up your Bible and stop putting words in my mouth with your incomprehensible straw man arguments. How about practicing a little bit of the tolerance that you so obviously expect. Or stop calling yourself a disciple.
Bryan I don’t know what kind of Christianity you embrace but it’s not the Christianity of the bible. Either you don’t know anything about “Black Liberation Theology” or you don’t want to know. That is NOT Christianity, you Bryan, are deceived.
from a…”so-called believer using hermeneutical gymnastics to justify my vote”…to…[Pastor] tony…just the second time I’ve read your blog but I may have found a new sport! While not being a Pastor or an accomplished ‘hermeneutical gymnast’ I think I have found (at least) one “straw man” argument that THE apostle Paul did in fact enter into with purpose. Acts 17 shows pretty clearly that Paul sized up his cultural audience and flattered them as being ‘religious’ then went on to use a reference point (the unknown God shrine) that was already familiar to them to get himself enough time to share his message in the hopes that their hearts would be moved (by the Holy Spirit) toward belief. He could have come in and immediately slammed the very thought of multiple Gods as ignorant and bent on people pleasing…I think he showed great skill in sizing up his audience and choosing his communication skillfully and while not compromising his message or personal belief. By that he was able to intelligently propose an alternative “one God” belief into an environment that respected openmindedness similar to some of my non-believing friends. I haven’t read your “stuff” enough to know whether you “litmus test” your faith in only the abortion and homosexuality issues but I know from reading and listening to non-believers that the issues of money, abortion, homosexuality are the easiest topics to slide from open sharing to condemning. Jesus message is that we BELONG [to Him], before we believe[d], and that as we move toward a progressive belief by hanging around [without being judged] we can come to our own moment of acceptance, surrender, and full BELIEF which then will (magically) enroll us into the elementary school of sanctification (and on toward middle, high school, and maturity). If there is no way to stand across the political aisle and explain my vote as a pro-life Christian for a democratic president then I may just stop sharing my faith and use my ‘verbal gymnast’ skills to get people to vote republican as the precursor to them getting a ticket to heaven.
Jeff Scott….welcome.
I don’t use one’s views on abortion and homosexuality as a litmus test for my (or anyone else’s) faith. I do use their handling of the Word of God as a litmus test for their faith.
I do use a candidate’s views on abortion and homosexuality as a litmus test for my vote.
Don’t sell yourself short, I’d say from what you wrote that you are a very accomplished hermeneutical gymnast.
Thanks for slamming me for being judgmental by ignorantly judging me (“just the second time to your site”….”I haven’t read your stuff enough to know”). Well played.
And while I recognized your last sentence as sarcasm, I don’t believe that voting Republican is a ticket to heaven. I’ve voted for dems in the past and likely will tomorrow.
Pastor Tony,
Oh my!!! Are you saying you will be voting for Obama????? That will be awesome but SueinGA and Marylin will not be happy. Well if you’re not voting for Obama, then:( but actually today am feeling so positive. I actually don’t care who wins because no matter who wins I will be submitting to the authority and praying for our nation and it’s president. This is directly taken from your post “What lessons I’ve learned” which I find refreshing and very encouraging. No hard feelings I hate to be “hermeneutical gymnastics kind” and I really don’t know it’s meaning but I think you directed it to everyone who are voting for Obama. but worry not I will try to correct myself. Other than God Bless you and your family.
This was such an interesting web site to me… I don’t have a single Christian friend voting for Mccain, so it was fascinating for me to read through this and see that there are people on entirely the opposite side of the argument for why a Christian person might vote for one candidate or another. I am still casting my vote for Obama tomorrow, but thanks for helping me see that believers support Mccain too.
Tony,
I will continue to read my Bible, and I do not find abortion and war to be the same thing. Innocents lives are lost in war however, as well. I am not pro-abortion. I am not anti-war. I was merely trying to point out that both these things cause murder. Innocent lives are lost constantly in war. Now, when there is a scripturally mandated war, I will know that it is sinless. I don’t believe there has been one of those in a while though. Also, I am sure you have an answer to this, If a woman gets pregnant and the Doctors say carrying the baby to term will kill her and the baby, is cancelling the pregnancy an option? what about a rape victim? or a sexually abused teen? SHould they be made to give birth to the child of their abuser? Or a battered wife who has just left her violent spouse and finds out she is pregnant with his child? I she is trying to get away from him? should she have to go through a custody battle as well?
I am not trying to be ridiculous. please, if you answer these, answer them specifically. -Eddy
Eddy…I didn’t take your remarks as ridiculous at all. Great questions all. And we’ve dealt with this at some length in prior threads.
I’m sorry that I can’t locate it right away, but SOMEWHERE on this blog I posted the actual recent statistics for each of the scenarios that you present.
While I believe that good can ultimately come from all of those horendous sets of circumstances, the number of pregnancies that result from these and end in abortion is a total of less than 8%.
Let’s say for argument’s sake that I believe we should allow abortions in these rare instances. I don’t, by the way, but let’s say I did.
Eddy, are you ready to join me in encouraging our congressmen and senators, either state or federal, to make 92% of all abortions illegal?
I wish I had seen this site prior to the election… I know the thread for the Presidential Race has closed but I wanted to add one small comment. I am a born again, conservative believer who has a current and active relationship with Jesus our Christ. I see the many issues such as abortion and same sex marriages… but the major reason I voted against Obama/Biden can be found in the Declaration of Independence. “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their CREATOR, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness…” In my election research I found that Obama hopes to pass the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) and to me that strips away our 1st right, the second right takes a hit with the “Fairness Docterine” which he supports. The combination of these and potential future attacks on these rights increasingly infringe on my right to pursue happiness. Again, I wish I could have posted this earlier and I know this thread wasn’t designed for this but I needed to get this perspective voiced so people can see what challenges we may face in the upcomming future. >
Ive looked over blog – sports, conservative values . . . and JESUS . . . I think Im gonna like. Nice work.
God Bless
Converted Jew
aaron
(and Cowboy fan . . . HEY, we’ll take Plax . . .)