Okay, here you go. Several folks have been trying to post political stuff on non-political posts. So here’s your chance to sound off.
Tell us who you are voting for and why. Please keep your replies brief and issue-oriented. I reserve the right to edit any unwarranted goofiness. In your reply please include….
1. Whether or not you consider yourself “a person of faith”
2. Who you voted for in 2004
3. The top 3-5 issues you measure in determining your vote
4. Why you believe everyone else should vote like you
Go!
McCain
1. yes, a person of faith.
2. Bush.
3. abortion, abortion, abortion, taxes, national security and abortion
(i know, people say that you should not be a one issue voter, but while I don’t think that one issue is a reason why you should vote FOR a person, I think it is a good reason to vote AGAINST a person. I will not vote for Obama so long as he advocates murdering innocents).
4. Look, I’m not a big McCain fan, he was not my first choice. But, how could you vote for someone who advocates killing babies (even those who were born alive after a botched abortion)? We are also in a dangerous time when we need someone with the foreign policy experience and grit that McCain has and Obama does not (looking in the eyes of a terrorist is not going to solve anything). Finally, I want someone who is going to cut taxes, not give us more tax and spend.
Sorry Pastor Tony, I think I am one of those that posted in the wrong place!
I am a born-again Christian.
In 2004 I voted for Bush.
I am a strong advocate for the life of the unborn. “If you did it to the least of these, you did it unto Me.”
The sanctity of marriage is important to me.
The character and world view of the person I’m voting for is important. Obama does not line up with God’s Word. The term “wolf in sheep’s clothing” comes to mind. I’ve done a lot of research on Obama, and as a Christian it scares me. Marxism and Christianity don’t mix.
I think a vote for Obama is a vote against Christian values. He is being viewed as “Messiah” like. Jesus is the only Messiah. The devil comes as an “Angel of light.” The devil is a deceiver and people are being deceived in droves. Of course God will bring about His Kingdom however He chooses.
I’m voting for McCain
This pretty well sums it up for me.
1. Yes, born-again Christian
2. Bush (in spite of Cheney)
3. abortion(social issues), national security(foreign policy), economic policy(taxes), domestic policy (size and scope of gov’t)
4. Still considering write-in vote, though I agree with Republicans MORE often than Democrats on most of the above issues.
Sprocket…welcome! Who was your first choice? Mine was Huckabee.
Sue in GA…welcome! No worries about the post elsewhere. You were respectful…others were not. Thanks for stopping by. Hope to hear from you again.
Abe…..’sup, dude? Do you think Obama realizes that Germans and children can’t vote for him?
Dave….nice to hear from you. I’m all goose-pimply…..who would you write in?
I voted for Keyes for Illinois Senate race. I voted for Huckabee in primary. Maybe a Huckabee/Keyes (or Keyes/Huckabee) ticket?
Now you’re talking!
I have heard someone pushing for a “None of the above” write-in. I can’t remember where I read it, but a Christian was upset with McCain’s position on allowing federal funds to support embryonic stem cell research. So, they were voting “None of the Above” to send a message.
1. yes
2. Bush
3. social issues (abortion primarily), economy (taxes, spending), national security, energy policy
4. Vote for McCain so that Obama doesn’t win. Isn’t that reason enough?
I hear ya, Dave. McCain was definitely not my choice during the primary season. I would consider a write in, but this election is going to be a close one. And the last thing I want is to do Obama any favors!
Although being from the same corrupt state that Obama hails from, my vote for McCain/Palin is pretty much a waste of paper. Perhaps I will write in Marilyn after all.
Emily, I’m from Obama’s corrupt state also and they would talk about me being too old. Thanks, for your confidence.
McCain
Yes, I am a believer
I voted for Bush in 2000 and against Kerry in 2004
Abortion, national security, economy, energy and immigration
McCain has demonstrated the ability to lead, reform and reach across the aisle without compromising core values when he has to. He is straightforward about his beliefs and I think he will be the best president since Reagan (although that isn’t saying much).
Obama
Born again believer
Third party in 2004
A few primary issues, although not necessarily in this order, include the economy/poverty, education, health care (very much including issues surrounding mental health and addictions), civil rights, abortion, and war.
I just want people to vote.
Tony, yes, was definitely for Huckabee, he was a refreshing voice to hear. I think he got railroaded by the media and let down by the evangelicals. Hope to see him some more in the future.
The choice is simple. McCain. Here is why.
Today I heard a report that over the course of the next 4-8 years there is a likelihood that the President (whoever he or she may be at the time) may be choosing anywhere from 2 to 6 Supreme Court Justices.
Therefore, I will be voting for the more conservative of the two choices. That would be McCain.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. IN FACT, TO ME IT IS THE #1 ISSUE.
Amendment. I looked back and saw that you wanted more information…..Sorry.
McCain.
Yes, I am a born-again Christian.
In 2004 I did support Bush.
I really am voting for McCain based on the comment I made above. To me that is the major issue at hand. THE NEXT PRESIDENT WILL BE SELECTING SEVERAL SUPREME COURT JUSTICES.
To those out there who claim to be Christians, I have to ask: “Are you pleased with the liberal decisions that are being made in our courtrooms these days?” …… Well, if you’re like me, you are tired of all of the liberal nonsense that is going on out there. And if you want more of it, then Obama is your man.
But if you’re like me….then PLEASE cast your vote for John McCain.
And while you are at it, vote for moral conservatives across the board.
If Obama is elected as the next President of the United States, is it the Will of God? And if you did not vote for Obama are you out of the Will of God?
Wow, Beth, I can’t believe that you are bringing that up! I was just thinking about that very topic / question in the last 60 minutes! Seriously!
I don’t believe that I ever said that it’s God’s will that Christians vote for McCain. I have stated very clearly that I believe he has the most to offer those who hold to kingdom issues (according to Scripture, not our wavering opinion(s)) as their priority. I think how the candidates have voted in the senate is a more telling tale than the rhetoric in the campaign. I don’t want Obama to be our next president. But if he is, I will pray for him and wish him the very best.
The children of Israel demanded a king, against God’s will, and they got Saul.
I believe that the end of our next president’s first term of office will say much about answering the question of whether or not it is “God’s will”.
I hold to the theology that there is a distinction between God’s perfect will and His permissive will.
Anyone else?
I agree with you Bro. Tony about God’s perfect will and His permissive will. He did not make us all robots, nor did he remove the consequences from all our sins. My comment that he will still be in control does not mean that we can do whatever we wish and still be in His will.
Beth, great question! I think it is important that we remember that no matter who gets our vote, the Bible is clear that all authority is given by God. So, whomever wins, his authority will be given by God. Pastor Tony is correct that we should pray for our next President.
However, we should not assume that we are out of the Will of God simply because we did not vote for the winner. God gave Israel some great leaders (David), but He also gave them some terrible leaders (Ahab). He allowed them to be taken captive several times. I think sometimes we assume that God’s Will always means good things will happen. Yet, it was the Perfect Will of God that brought about the death of Jesus, for His Glory!
Very well stated, Dave!
god chooses imperfect people to fill phenomenol roles in the world, and also to make important, “kingdom” related decisions. whichever imperfect candidate is selected, god will work as god sees fit.
and i appreciate the reminder of the selection of multiple supreme court justices. interestingly, however, that is a big reason why i am casting my vote for obama. it is a very important time for our country, and i would appreciate his influence on those selections.
If Obama wins I do believe that it is the will of God for it to happen…after all, He is control of EVERYTHING. And I would be the last who would be able to tell the world why it happened in the event that it should.
No, I do not believe that I would be out of God’s will for having voted for McCain in the event that Obama should win.
I will pray for my President no matter who that person turns out to be.
……
“Stilltrying”: I would be interested to know why you think it is important for Obama to be making the supreme court selections–especially since you claim to be a born-again Christian. I really am curious to know why you think a liberally-slanted court is a benefit to the Kingdom.
Please know that I am being respectful here and that I am not trying to be critical or cynical. I really want to know why you see a benefit for the Kingdom.
My reasons for opposing a liberally-slanted court include abortion, the trend to remove God/Christ from our culture, and the attempt by some to redefine marriage.
honestly, the research i have done tells me that the replacement of the soon-to be retiring supreme court justices with essentially conservative justices would potentially place an extreme conservative lean on the supreme court. i am a huge believer in balance when it comes to politics. i really do believe the checks and balances in our government work, and i would be disillusioned to see the supreme court lean one way or the other. i don’t ultimately believe that supreme court justices are supposed to enter that position with a desire to promote their own political agendas, but i do realize that everyone enters a position with a particular worldview. so in light of the quest to seek balance, i would prefer obamas influence over mccains. although, quite frankly, mccain is not reportedly opposed to civil unions, although he is against gay marriage. same position as obama. so in terms of that issue, i don’t think there would be significant difference.
Stilltrying:
Since decisions have gone against conservatives lately….I personally think that a little ’swinging of the pendulum’ to the ‘right’ would be a good thing…especially where Kingdom issues are concerned.
If the pendulum starts to swing too far in that direction, then I can assure you that liberal senate democrats would take matters into their own hands. They’ve done it before, they’d do it again.
{In all of my adult years, I have yet to see that situation in reverse. Please correct me if I am wrong. (I’m serious about the need for correction….as I am not a walking encyclopedia)}
I tell you…..the courts have become a very big problem. At least as far as Kingdom issues are concerned. My vote stands with McCain. (And I’m not insinuating that Obama is not a Christian….this is a question of ‘liberalism’ vs’ conservativism’ in our courts).
……………………………….
From a Kingdom standpoint, “Stilltrying”, how can a court be too far to the right? Maybe I am missing something.
Again….this is a respectful dialogue that we have going here.
stilltrying, I don’t think you need to be surprised to learn that the supreme court justices have already begun to lean. Until Roberts appointment, the left was showing too much power and it is only now that some balance was shown. With the appointment of any by Obama, the leaning will be extremely leftward and contrary to Biblical standards.
1) Yes – very much so – born again follower of Christ
2) Voted Bush in 2004
3) Economy, Foreign Policy, National Debt
4) Voting Obama. I believe Obama has the best chance of turning the economy around and strengthening the image of America in the world. I also believe that in regards to social and economic justice – two HUGE Biblical values, Obama holds the edge.
Greetings, Brennan…welcome to the discussion.
Totally agree with you that social justice is a big issue in Scripture.
Not sure that I’m completely understanding what you mean by “economic justice”. Please explain….both the concept and where it’s found in the Bible. Thanks.
Economic justice – treatment of the poor. Hundreds of verses to choose from…”Luke 4:16-21. And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read… “The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He appointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free those who are downtrodden, to proclaim the favorable year of the LORD… Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” ”
If you got a group of Christians together and showed them two sets of images – one, of folks during and after hurricane Katrina, and one of a gay couple kissing – the stronger reaction of shock would come from the gay couple (at least in my opinion). I think the right wing has done a fabulous job of taking advantage of the Christian vote, trading political power to folks like Dobson in favor of focusing on just a couple of issues (gay marriage and abortion). They’ve convinced Christians the only answer is through government response, and that all the other Biblical issues pale in comparison.
I mean, Focus on the Family recently had Bush on the cover with some sort of headline like “totally pro life” – though he’s done little in regards to abortion, started a war that has led to tens of thousands of deaths, and has mocked prisoners who are to be executed.
i don’t believe that the right has all of the kindom answers. the right focuses, more “righteously” on some kindom issues, while, i believe, that the left more righteously focuses on others. this is where i believe the balance is necessary. we are probably both gathering our information in distinctly different places, which would be why i would see a lean to the left as more balancing, and you would see a lean to the right as such. i don’t think we are going to see eye to eye on this one, which is fine… i am just trying to express my perspectives. i do appreciate the respectful dialogue, however. very much. thank you.
Okay, Brennan, I get you now. I’m glad I asked for the explanation.
The verses you cite I would put in the “social” justice category.
So, may I ask you to explain your views on biblical social justice, please (as it is different from economic justice)?
We probably agree on this and are just using different paradigms. But I want to be sure.
Stilltrying:
Re: The New President Making Supreme Court Choices
You are not specific enough in defining those important liberal COURT views that you feel benefit the Kingdom. If you would give a few specific examples, it would be helpful.
After that I might have a better understanding as to why you feel the way that you do.
Until then, I must assume that you are referring to those noble and very important ‘love and compassion’ types of things. And if that is the case, allow me to say that the Christian is instructed to embrace those types of things as an INDIVIDUAL….and this CAN and should be done regardless of what party is in power at the time or regardless of how the court is leaning at the time (i.e. conservative vs. liberal).
My “conservative” concerns where the courts are concerned are addressing those issues that we as Christians HAVE NO POWER OVER AS INDIVIDUALS because of legislation/court rulings. Things such as:
1) Removing the 10 Commandments from our public buildings
2) Killing innocent unborn babies (i.e. abortion)
3) The trend to redifine the biblical meaning of marriage.
The only way I can hopefully control the above three-mentioned is to vote in a way that may hopefully reverse these types of court decisions/trends.
By Christ’s instructions, I need to be and CAN BE loving and compassionate every day of my life. But the ONLY WAY I can affect these other types of issues (three of which I have mentioned) is to cast my vote in such a way that it may hopefully reverse the liberal trend that continues to tear away at our Judeo-Christian foundation.
The person who becomes President will have great influence on the future makeup of the court. That is why it is so important for me to vote to see that there is a less liberal input into this selection process.
That is why at this point in time I still plan to vote for John McCain.
I didn’t vote in the primary, because I’m not registered in the Dem or Rep party. But I really liked Mike Huckabee. He seemed very honest and good. I wish McCain had chosen him on the ticket.
I also think Chuck Baldwin and Ron Paul have good points and don’t just say what they think people want to hear. There are many points with which I disagree with them, but I really could respect them.
I am in complete favor of a third party. This two party system is bogus. We have viable candidates outside the Replocrats, but they aren’t allowed to debate. If they were permited in debate, then perhaps the Republicans and Democrats would be more quick to make stands and be clear on issues. As is, everyone is scared to turn someone off. But Nader, Paul, Baldwin, etc call it like they see it – not as much pandering.
Corporations and the media are completely controlling this country. Are we truly free if all the candidates don’t get a chance to speak? Chuck Baldwin is pro-life, anti-death penalty, and anti-war. He might have had a chance if all candidates were given the opportunity to speak.
i think that the primary reason we would disagree is in the fact that i don’t think the answer to abortion is to make it illegal. the last time i checked, abortion IS an individual decision. i also believe very strongly that civil unions should be the role of the state/federal government, and that marriage should be the role of religious institutions. i, for one, would prefer my gay brothers and sisters to be able to procure health care benefits, receive the same tax breaks, and benefit in their partnerships in the same way that my married brothers and sisters do. i don’t believe it is the role of the government to discriminate based on individual, personal issues. again, i do realize that we will disagree on these things, and i am fine with that. i am not trying to convince you of a thing. all of the commentaries i have read on the supreme court justices, indicate that the more left of the justices are the ones who will most likely retire during the next administration, which is why i would prefer obamas influence on them over mccains. to keep the balance. to keep the diverse perspectives. i am wondering why you placed the words “love and compassion” types of things in quotes. that seems to imply something trite. correct me if i am wrong.
the supreme court makes MANY more decisions than just those related to abortion and marriage (and the 10 commandments too). they make decisions on environmental issues, which i certainly believe are kingdom issues, as well as issues based on justice for women, economic justice issues, prescripton drug issues, age discrimination, and so much more. i am simply making a case for balance in the courts. in terms of the church’s role/jurisdiction, i trust the church to embrace the disenfranchised and display the love and compassion of which you speak.
I think social and economic justice are pretty hand in hand – Jim Wallis has a couple of books that really cover the topics well – but the general concept that if you take out all the passages that deal with the treatment of the poor and oppressed, there wouldn’t be much of a Bible left.
Washington rushes with salvation for hedge funds, big companies, and CEO’s. But when it comes to the poor and oppressed in society, we typically say they have brought the problems on themselves and must deal with it themself. I’m not saying that with one pen, Obama undoes all of that – but Bush’s policies have been very friendly to the rich (as evidenced by the ballooning ratio of CEO to average workers paid) and I see no real difference between Bush and McCain as to handling taxes and the economy.
I must respectfully disagree with the statement that Obama is a Christian. The bible says that Jesus IS the only way to salvation.
The bible states that homosexuality is an “aboniation” to the Lord. The bible states “Thou shalt not kill.” Those are two commands from God.
As a Christian I serve God by giving of money, and time. I don’t need the government to “take” my hard earned money to give to those that THEY choose. Of course we should help the poor and down trodden, but not by force. People are so concerned about health care but do you know people who have experienced “Universal Health Care.” I do and it’s terrible. Actually they are scared of an Obama Presidency.
Americans do not want to sacrifice anymore. They want the most modern technology, entertainment, etc. They will pay or charge that, but then want a nanny government to support their “needs.” How about some personal responsibility again.
I’m not sure I understand a Christian being concerned of a government leaning too far to the right. Obama choosing the next SCJ, aren’t we becoming liberal enough in our schools, government.
I left out above that Obama believes that “Jesus is one of many ways to Heaven.” That is not what my bible says. He is the ONLY way.
again, i realize that my perspectives will not be popular on this site. i am quite comfortable with that, but certainly appreciate the dialogue. i am not of the belief that i am able to name or decide who qualifies as a christian or non christian in the world. i will leave that to god, and do my best to identify truth where i am able and led. i believe in jesus as my lord and savior. so i will trust the promises of god in that. i am sorry you cannot understand a christian worried about a govenrnment leaning too far to the right. perhaps it would be of value for you to research some of the areas in which the right has failed to care for the poor or support programs that care for babies AFTER they have been born. these examples do exist. i think it is a dangerous road to begin to equate the right with christians and the left with non christians. painful to me, at least. the left is imperfect, the right is imperfect. as i keep trying to assert, i believe that balance in our government is essential in maintaining the freedoms that we, as american citizens, so treasure.
Stilltrying-
Forget the left / right stuff for a moment.
If you are a Christian, that means you have taken God at His Word, right? You are basing your salvation on what God has revealed to us according to The Bible, aren’t you?
I’m heading somewhere…..
i have a personal relationship with jesus christ. i have an amazing church where i learn and grow. i have a career that places me on the streets, daily, with those who have very little. i am heading somewhere too.
and it is about time SOMEONE suggested dropping the left right stuff. it is artificial and contrived.
You misunderstand me…..but I’m glad you’re heading somewhere, too.
What I meant was that your relationship with Jesus is not just some arbitrary thing. It is based on fact. It is based on something that can be trusted. It is based on something that is our standard. It’s what we measure things by.
You said in an earlier post that it’s up to God who is and who isn’t a Christian. That’s true. But God has let us in on how He determines that. It’s in His Word. We can determine truth from error by The Word of God. We can use good judgment about people and their behavior according to The Word of God. Jesus said, “By their fruits you will know [Christians]“.
Truth is a Person. Truth can be known and experienced.
we can agree on that! truth is a person, and the beautiful thing is that where there is truth, there is jesus, so we never have to fear the truth.
(i don’t mean that in the “fear god” context, mind you)
So would you agree that we can look at a person or look at their behavior and apply The Word of God to what we observe?
Then on that basis we can determine that someone who is living a life that is obviously contrary to God’s Word is either…
1. Not a Christian at all
2. A believer WAY out of fellowship with God
Is that a fair analysis?
or we could also consider the fact that our interpretation could be subject to growth, and that our own lens could be clouding the truth. i guess i just tend to consider my own fallibility before i consider the fallibility of others.
You’re squirming on me!
We agreed that truth could be nailed down in regard to our personal salvation.
But now I think I hear you saying that we can’t apply the same standard objectively in determining the salvation and/or fellowship with God of another. Is that correct?
My point is that The Word of God is sufficient in all matters. It speaks directly to a vast majority of issues and indirectly to the rest.
We don’t have to guess or wonder what God’s will is. He’s revealed it to us in His Word!
I can agree that there may well be more issues “in play” for believers in this election than abortion and homosexuality. But I can’t swallow how so many Christians are in effect ignoring them altogether. That’s not an accusation, necessarily, Stilltrying…honest.
It has been reasoned (wrongly) that McCain and Obama are essentially the same on abortion and homosexuality. So Christians need to look “beyond” these issues to the economy, jobs, health care, etc….
But beyond the rhetoric of the election (McCain moving more center of right and Obama moving more center of left), we HAVE to look at the candidates’ voting records and their respective party’s historic platforms.
This is where you’ll find our next president landing most often. In my opinion.
really, i am not trying to squirm, but i will tell you how i, personally, look at issues when i know there is disagreement in the christian world. if i hear a christian arguing for the rights of lgbt people, whether that be marriage, or basic civil rights, i choose to research exactly how and why a christian would support that biblically. same with abortion. war. poverty. whatever. for me, that provides a diversity of perspectives from which to grow and learn. i realize you might disagree with a person’s interpretation of scripture in many of these issues; however, for whatever reason, sincere people of faith have come up on both sides of many of the hot topic christian issues. and they have done so through the bible. i don’t ignore those hot topic issues. not at all. i am proud to be well read and well researched. i am not saying that i am right, or have some sort of monopoly on truth because i don’t. all i am trying to say is that i have come about my opionions and beliefs in the best way i know how, and the bible remains my authoritative text.
and i guess, honestly, i don’t believe that it is my job to determine and or name the salvation of another. i believe that it is my job to love god, myself, my neighbor. i guess we have all been called to do that differently.
Okay…then I guess this is where we agree to disagree.
I just can’t see where anyone could find any passage of Scripture that would support abortion. Even taking it out of context very badly.
Also (not sure if this was you or not, stilltrying), it seems that some of the Obama supporters on this blog have said, in a nutshell, that you can’t legislate morality (in regard to abortion), but we need to be sure that we do everything possible to legislate morality (in regard to social / economic justce).
See where I’m coming from?
i definitely do see where you are coming from. i DO believe that you can legislate morality…. quite obviously… aren’t ALL laws legislating morality on one level or another? i have not yet come to the conclusion, however, that making abortion illegal will be the most effective method, yielding the least harm, in eliminating abortion.
I”m definately voting McCain and below I’ll list a few reasons why which I think everyone should take time to read they may be surprised. These are paragraphs written in Obama’s books that he himself published.
Dreams of My Father: ‘I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.’
From Dreams of My Father : ‘I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race.’
From Dreams of My Father: ‘There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.’
From Dreams of My Father: ‘It remained necessar y to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.’
From Dreams of My Father: ‘I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa , that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.’
From Audacity of Hope: ‘I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.
you might be suprised, what type of research does exist regarding biblical support for a pro choice position. i am not necessarily even saying that i accept or agree with it, but it does exist, and i do think it is always important to be aware of such diversity in thinking.
I have to ask the question, “if Christians don’t stand up for the unborn, then who will?” There was a time in history we could exchange the word “abortion” with “slavery.” So, I ask again…if not the Christian, then who?
I am with Jodi. A good, viable third (maybe even fourth) party would probably do the country good. It would give an extra voice to the discussion and it just might make the other two actually take a stand on some more issues. As I recall, Ross Perot made both the Elder Bush and the Male Clinton extremely nervous. At the same time, the multiple party system leads to wierd coalition type governments that wind up gridlocked. Why would we want to go to a multiple party system? We can get gridlock with two parties. Oh, the efficiency of America!
The USA, so blessed and so ungrateful. Just like the Israelites, in the good times we turn our back on God and think we can handle everything ourselves. Human nature has not changed that much and God has been merciful to us thus far. In my life time though, I have seen morals plummet and with the modern invention of television and instant access, the turn around looks dimmer unless our churches can show people that sin is sin. The age of innocence has dropped soooo low, the home so fragmented and the Bible interpreted so loosely. No politician should be exalted the way Obama is being, worse than Bill Clinton was.
funny. bush was exhalted as well. many presidential candidates have been exhalted. in fact, our republican vp candidate attended a church where certain candidates were “exhalted”. we can’t have it both ways here.
and i would also like to say that i have a number of non christian co workers who are fiercely anti abortion. i don’t think it is fair, at all, to imply that only christians are concerned about the rights and lives of the unborn.
i feel the emotional nature of this conversation heightening, and i guess i don’t want to be involved in that. i just wish to say that i have appreciated the respectful dialogue.
stilltrying (if you’re still here) I never meant to imply that only Christians care about the unborn. I said “IF Christians don’t stand up for the unborn, then who will.” The believer must stand against sin. We live in a time where wrong is right and right is wrong. I’ve heard that 80% of Americans are “Christians.” If so, then why is America in such moral decay. It brings to mind a very scary bible verse, when the Lord will say “Away from me I never knew you.” God hates sin, so should we. I agree with Marilyn, that some people interpret the bible loosely. It doesn’t matter what we think, it matters what the word of God says.
SueinGA…..Sadly, many assume they are Christians because they were born to parents who said that they were Christians.
You and I both know that it doesn’t work that way. My guess is that those pollsters assume that it does.
……
Sorry, stilltrying, I have not responded in a while. Looks as though the others have kept you quite occupied.
I’ve said about all that I can say, and I am not one to argue. And I say that with a smile on my face. Trust me, I am not in a state of rage.
The best way for us to truly have a Christian nation is to fill that nation with Christians. On that I hope we all can agree! So no matter who is elected in November, we Christians have to remember that the fields are ripe for the harvest. THERE IS LOTS OF WORK TO BE DONE!
Please check out ProLifeProObama.com if you have any questions on where Obama stands on abortion. Please take the time to get the facts before you vote!
I am a Christian voting Obama, I have voted mainly Republican in the past. I like Obama and what he stands for. The smear campaign McCain/Palin are currently running shows how desperate they are.
I know that the campaign has turned pretty negative recently. What I don’t undersatnd is why McCain is seen as being negative and mean, but Obama is seen as being above the fray. I have seen both candidates’ ads, stump speeches, etc. Both are slinging the mud hard and fast. In fact, one watchdog group has shown that Obama has actually more negative advertising than McCain, but the general public perception is opposite. Why? MSM? Style of advertising? I’m not sure.
Adrienne,
I would encourage you (and other pro-lifers) to research the Freedom of Choice Act. It’s a serious blow to the pro-life movement and poses a serious threat to the unborn. In his speech to Planned Parenthood Obama said that seeing the FOCA made law would be one of his first priorities as President. He also mentions it in a statement on his official website celebrating the anniversary of Roe v. Wade.
http://www.barackobama.com/2008/01/22/obama_statement_on_35th_annive.php
It would overturn any and all current abortion laws/restrictions. Abortions would be legal and available at any point during a woman’s pregnancy including well into the 9th month. It would essentially make abortion one more national entitlement. The government would have to condone and promote abortion in its education programs. I have a hard time understanding how Obama can be about “abortion reductions” when he is a supporter of the Freedom of Choice Act.
As Tony has said many times before, don’t go to this website or that website. They all have agendas. Look at the records of the candidates. Look at their own websites, what they are actually saying on the important issues.
Emily-
In last night’s debate, did you hear McCain say, “Don’t listen to the rhetoric, look at our records”?
I told Cheryl that I think McCain must be reading my blog!
I wish.
That was probably one of the best lines of the debate! I was waiting for him to give you the credit. “My hero, Pastor Tony, (dramatic pause) says”……..
Wow…I don’t know what to say…it’s just an honor to be nominated…there are so many people to thank.
“I’ve always tried to put The Savior first. I feel that if I do that, there’s no way He will allow me to have anything but an adequate and zealous love for my country.”
Wouldn’t that be a great debate quote….from either candidate?
Adrienne, I would ask you to search information on Marxism and Christianity. Obama is a Marxist, that will not be good for Christians.
Also, on the abortion issue has anyone been to Jill Stanek’s website? Check it out, very interesting and a lot of information. She was a Chicago area nurse. Has dealt with Obama on the abortion issue.
http://www.jillstanek.com/
Read this:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77539
What more has to come to light before we see the light?
Marilyn I saw that last night on Fox News. I agree, how much more do people have to see before the light bulb comes on. I can only wonder if the delusion has already come. I don’t know what to think anymore. How can someone that has so little substance and a lot of shady connections have made it this far. He’s the puppet, who’s pulling the strings.
Hello Pastor Tony,
I understand how you feel about abortion and homosexuality but a sin is a sin and in Gods eyes they are all the same. I honestly don’t think McCain is exactly the best Christian either. Really what matters first is God and the way you use God to get your political views accross is wrong.
Hello Andrew….welcome to the blog.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion.
Please show me my error.
Jesus Christ is my Lord and I worship at a Pentecostal Church, where we believe the bible is God’s word entirely.
Could someone tell me why it seems to me that my sister in Christ Ms Palin and Obama have exchanged places? Ms Palin being a christian has the Spirit of God in her yet she keeps calling Obama names bringing up issues concerning his ex. pastor and asking her principal to fight dirty (if we are to believe the papers), While Obama who is meant not to know God is behaving like the lamb, silent before his accusers? The word of God is clear and can’t be broken: a tree is known by its fruit; out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
As christians we are the light of the world and the salt of the earth. Why is Ms Palin and the Republicans not telling the average man/woman out there the ‘good news’ of how they intend to fix the probs around us, rather they keep mouthing off on ‘the devil’. If you ask me Senator Mcain and Ms Palin have poorly represented what Christians represent.
Pastor Tony, Thanks for creating this blog and the opportunity to share with christians on the issue of the elections. I’ve been quite bothered on some of your responses on the earlier posted board, you seem quite offended that others who call themselves christians have different opinions to that that which you’re professing. Hum what comes to my mind is the response Gideon’s father told his people when they asked him to bring out his son to be killed on destroying Baal’s shrine, he simply said why are you fighting for Baal, if Baal be god let him kill Gideon for himself. Our God is not Baal. Moses did try to help God once rather than speak to the rock he struck it.
Our primary assignment is to Love. I think a lot of us prefer the easier route of wanting government to set the right policy/laws etc, rather than us taking more active roles in our neighbours lives (scripture is clear as christians we do not have a form of godliness rather the power to change things around us resides in us). Yes prayers are no longer allowed in schools is that not a good opportunity for me to show that well I pray and SEE the difference it makes in my life?
Sir, sometimes you sound as a pastor of only republican voters and not a shephard of God’s people
Tolu…thanks for stopping by.
I think The Word of God is clear, too.
You are correct that what people of faith have shared on my blog has been offensive to me, but not for the reason you state. You claim that I’m offended because people don’t agree with me. Not true. I’m offended by how casually and carelessly God’s Word is handled by some. I’m offended by how easily people of faith can be duped by Obama.
There is an uncut (and rather lengthy) video on youtube.com where Obama is speaking at a Planned Parenthood rally. In that video, he says that one of the first things he plans to sign as president is the Freedom of Choice Act. Have you read that proposal? It’s basically a blank check for abortion in all of it’s disgusting forms. So, early in his campaign he’s for making abortion more accessible. Now, he’s saying the he wants to reduce the number of abortions in America. It can’t be both!
Christians for Obama are fond of saying that both presidential candidates have identical opinions on the issue of homosexual marriage. While their campaign platforms may be similar, how have McCain and Obama voted? In a recent senate vote that dealt with homosexual marriage, McCain voted against making homosexual marriage legal and Obama didn’t.
I am not seeking to be a pastor to Republicans. I am seeking to be a pastor that rightly divides the Word of Truth. After much of what I’ve read on my blog in regard to the election, I worry a great deal about what some people are having to endure from their pulpits on Sunday morning.
May God help us.
Hey Sylvia, regarding the regurgitated email you copied to the site on October 5th (I’ve received the same forwarded email at lease 30 times from other ill-informed family members)..
Read this…
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp
Best wishes
Totu why are you being the judge of Sarah Palin but give Obama a free pass. You say she is “fighting dirty” I see it she’s speaking the truth.
It’s quite obvious that many can’t handle the truth in these last days. Jesus got angry, but didn’t sin. We should be angry when we see babies being torn apart in their mothers wombs. But no, not today, it’s just “another sin, and sin is sin.” Same for homosexuality, just “another sin.” These sins are decaying our society, so how or why Christians will vote these people into office baffles me. I’m not saying McCain is or isn’t a Christian. I don’t know. But I do know who is not, Obama. Black Liberation Theology is NOT Christianity in any form. Who in their right Christian mind would sit and listen to that hate Sunday after Sunday. The answer is no one. Not Obama, sat there for over 20 years. Oh yeah, he never heard any of that. He had very poor judgement or he’s stupid. Neither of which I would want as President of the U.S.
The bible tells us that people’s love would grow cold in the last days. Anyone that has a choice to vote for or against abortion, and votes for it has a cold heart. And of course I know that is not the only “sin.” It’s one of many. Pastor Tony has given the information on what Obama plans to do if he takes the office. To take that “sin” so lightly, you’ve never seen the baby being killed in the womb. Easier to look away and call it one of many “sins.”
I am neither Republican nor Democrat, I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I align with God and His Word. Thou shalt not kill. How many ways can you interpret that.
Keep speaking the truth Pastor Tony. It’s not very popular these days. Jesus said “I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.
“My people perish for a lack of knowledge.”
i would support the idea that the way in which you present your opinions tends to be aggressive and shunning of those who think differently than you. that, however, does not bother me, as this is your blog, and i appreciate you opening it to dialogue, whether or not you accept it. i guess that my only struggle is in the idea that people have been “duped” by obama, and that somehow you rest above that in intellect and understanding. there exists “Truth” (with a capitol T) on both sides of this campaign… Truth is a person, not a set of ideas, and there are ways in which both obama and mccain have represented that person and ways in which they have failed to represent him. both the sacred and the profane, at work in human action, as it is in all of us. i am very glad that you have found a way to interpret scripture that makes sense to you. i have also engaged in this process of understanding scripture, and learning from it, and continuing to engage the story of my life with the word of god. it is a beautiful process for me. i have not been duped, nor do i believe you have. can’t we just have different perspectives while on the same journey?
I wanted to share something very upsetting. This “hate talk” is very dangerous and may be inciting people to violence. Of course this is only the fault of the individual who chooses to be hateful, but I urge McCain supporters to make sure they are respectful and kind to Obama supporters, despite disagreements.
I just received a call from a friend who was attacked this week. I don’t want to go into too many details to protect her, but she was literally attacked by some men in her yard who were ranting and raving about her being an “obama” supporter. They also threw many inappropriate words in there, making it a hate crime. Lawyers and police and all kinds of people are now involved.
I’ve also noticed that my Obama friends can’t keep any signs in their yard. They are stolen numerous times, usually in the middle of the night. Obviously Christians aren’t attacking and stealing, but I do think it is important that we create an atmosphere where tolerance and love is the rule and not hatred.
this poor woman is not literally petrified to hang a sign in her yard and is also scared to take it to the news, which is begging her for the interview.
Please pray.
Stilltrying-
People can have all of the opinions / any opinion they wish to have.
You don’t have to have superior intellect or understanding to rise above the tripe Obama is spewing. You have to have an ounce of good judgment and a 7th grade education, but you don’t have to have superior intellect or understanding.
Obama says that he will work to reduce the number of abortions. His earlier campaign platform and his votes (when he bothered to vote) in the Senate say otherwise.
Obama says that he will cut taxes. His voting record (when he bothered to vote) says otherwise. He has a history as a senator of being a party-line tax and spend democrat. Yet somehow we are supposed to believe that once he’s in the White House that he’s going to flip a switch and we’re all going to get a big fat tax refund and no new taxes?
He says that he’s not for homosexual marriage. Yet when he had the opportunity to back up his rhetoric with a vote, he didn’t vote on a bill that would have struck a blow to homosexual marriage.
He says that he represents the type of leadership we need. When has he ever lead anything besides ACORN and his campaign?
With the tenuous balance of political power in the congress and senate, we need a president with a history of genuine ability (not just political speak) of getting members of both parties to sit down together and get meaningful work accomplished.
I’m still waiting for someone…anyone…to share a piece of significant legislation that Obama has written (or even helped to write, for that matter).
What part of this are you Obama supporters not getting?
It’s a typical response to people like me who tell the truth…..some don’t like to hear it. And when you can’t make a cogent argument on the merit of the facts involved, you call me mean, intolerant, brain-washed, agressive, and a LOT of names that I can’t type here.
If any of you want to vote for Obama, go for it. But don’t hide behind your pseudo-intellectualism and poor biblical exegesis to defend your vote.
Wake up, America!
again, truth is a person, not a series of ideas. i don’t recall EVER calling you names. i believe i said that your methods appear aggressive. i don’t understand your anger, or accept it. i feel as if, perhaps, you are growing as frustrated as the mccain campaign seems to be…. i suppose that makes sense since it appears as if they will not come out on top in nov. i am not the one hiding behind pseudo intellectualism. i am the one claiming to be accepting of your reality, and your understanding of healthy political discussion. when obama is president of this country, some great things will happen, and some poor things will happen. it is part of this process called life. evangelicals claimed that bush would be the answer, he was not. obama will not be the answer. he will have some answers and make some mistakes. i appreciate your passion, but please accept and appreciate mine. if you care not to have discenting ideas on your blog, that is fine, but please don’t ask for them, and then be insulting to those who differ. that is not kind or appropriate.
joe biden wrote the violence against women act. this carries significant weight for me. just to provide something for you to consider.
Stilltrying-
Please forgive me. I did not mean to accuse YOU, necessarily, of name-calling or hiding behind pseudo-intellectualism. Those pronouns should have been more generic in scope.
Again, my anger is not directed toward people. It is directed to their willful ignorance.
I am seeking to confront opinions, not people.
Pardon me, please.
accepted. appreciated. thank you.
Here are videos worth watching:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UnmS_vULPxw&feature=related
Jodi, my prayers are with your friend. I hope that the people responsible will be held accountable, and that your friend will be able to find peace in Jesus and will not be trapped by fear.
It is frustrating. I’m a senior citizen, former Democrat and first and foremost a Christian. I once thought that the Democrat Party had all the answers, but the party did not then have the answers and they for sure do NOT now. I’ve watched our churches turn into places where the doctrine of prosperity is preached too much. The meaning of following Christ has turned into a tolerance society…..tolerate sin, false religions, heresy and everything but sacrifice and the way of the Cross. Holiness is mocked. Any Born Again Christian has the Spirit of God abiding within, but we have to let Him have control or our former nature will still control. If we are true Children of God, we better be seeking to hear him or as the Word tells us “Whom He loves, He chastens.” We have the Bible to tell us right from wrong and killing unborn babies must be at the top of the list, what have they done to deserve painful deaths in the womb or as they are exiting?
I agree with Pastor Tony that the best way to judge future actions of politicians is to look how they have voted. Campaign rhetoric is so soon forgotten and they turn into the same kind of politician that they have always been. McCain was sure not my choice, I didn’t vote for him, Huckabee was my candidate, but Obama was at the bottom of my list.
Pastor Tony you can stop waiting for anyone to show you a piece of legislation…..there isn’t any.
We live in America, we can vote for whomever we choose. I believe it is important to choose someone of good character. Tony Rezko, Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, ACORN, there are more but you get the idea. You are known by the company you keep. His own brother in Kenya lives on $12.00 a year and we’re supposed to believe he’s going to do the right thing by America.
I’m sure Jesus offended many when He was on earth. But one thing He did was speak the truth. Some don’t want to hear the truth, it’s that simple.
Jodi that is very sad what happened to your friend. That is the very reason I won’t put a bumper sticker on my car or a sign in my yard. Not worth the trouble it sometimes brings.
Google this please and then tell me how this is OK….Black liberation theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black liberation theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black liberation theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this
This is what Obama listened to for over 20 years. Think about it.
I am 67 years old, white and live in Ky.
I have been a Christian, so I thought, since I was 11yrs old. I was raised in the church from the cradle role up. Now I question what most peoples definition is for Christian.
Am I and my friends the only ones concerned about the remarks Sarah Palin makes?
First she says soccer moms are like pit bulls with lipstick. This is not a good remark since parents who behave in this manner not only hurt the children playing, but at times it has caused violence. Where is Christian attitude and behavior in that remark.
Another one she is saying is; Joe Six Pack.
How irresponsible to make it sound like this is a positive about our country where there is so much alcoholism. Teens will take this as a good thing because a vice presendital canidate says so. No wander other countries are calling us Godless!
Then there are lies told about O’Bama, if anyone is still intersted in truth, that McCain and Palin have used so much it has bought out crazed and racial people who say Kill Him and Hang Him on and on and on. How can anyone support them, on purpose trying to get people to support lies. Now McCain says O’Bama is a decent man and not to fear him being president. After their remarks was finally put down by his own party and they were told to stop. Do you call this Christian?
If you have only been watching Fox News whose CEO worked in the Republican party you are missing a lot of truth. I have listened to all the News Stations, looked up the bills that were passed and not passed. Who voted Ya and Nay and what other things were attached to them. I have researched daily for months and people who don’t do that, have no ideal where lies and truth are.
They hear propaganda and choose without seeking the truth to spread it. How can Christians hang onto not believing in abortion and miss the other things that are not in my eyes Christian? You focus on one thing and close your eyes to the multitude of untruths.
I can see why churches should keep out of Politics. Why, because there are to many different religions in this country for one to rule . I believe Christ did not choose to be envolved in politics.
You, without sin, cast the first stone!
I am getting to the point that I am ashamed to call myself Christian after seeing and hearing what I have from church ministers and their congregation. The truth is; if each person that calls themselves a Christian would live their faith and choose fairness and truth in all things . Maybe, just maybe God will really be pleased.
There seems to be more hippocrites residing in our churched in this day and time than I have seen in all my years on earth.
Abortion is not good, but if you check the news, neither is the war in Irag. It has been exposed that all they said they went there to find was not true and the man who gave the information was a con man.
Our President nor military checked to see if he was reliable. We have lost thousands of soldiers and others lives have been destroyed physically and emotionaly because Bush wanted to invade Irag and this gave him a good excuse..
Other thing you need to check, is Verterans against McCain. They hacv their own website and they give him a D for doing things to help verterans.
Then you need to check on his anger issues.
You need to look up Alaskans newspapers and see how Alaskans feel about Palin and McCain.
True Christians do not over look all the facts! Truthfully, American in not above Gods laws and yes it shows the bad in the stock market is showing us it’s time to wake up and stop the hate, the lies, and the racism. There are many who hide in churches and call themselves Christians who can’t hide from God.
Bonnie, I have checked out all my facts and they add up.
I am not a racist. I am a white woman married to a black man that has his own mind.
And about the “lipstick on the pig” remark…it was a joke!
Hi, I’m a Born Again Christian and I voted for Bush in 2004. I am voting for Obama this year because I do not want to put another Bush Administration in office. My 3 & 1/2 yr. old son got Autism from vaccines. And yes, we KNOW that’s what HIS particular case of autism is from. I cannot speak for all cases, but my son does have mercury poisoning/leaky gut syndrome. George Bush failed to sign the ban to remove mercury from the vaccines – and he also vetoed a bill for autism funding. All for money. I will not look at my son’s face and put another pseudo Bush in office. My husband and I are now in the darkest hour of our lives, praying and asking Jesus for our son’s recovery, that he is entitled to. I have learned that just because someone says they are a Christian does not mean they are one, and even more than that, just because someone says they are a Christian does not make them leadership material. I have also learned that politics are more than just abortion and homosexuality. Politics for me, and countless other parents of autistic children who are on government waiting lists for funding, mind you and going bankrupt to get our children the therapies they so desparately need, are about, well, just that. May God forgive Mr. Bush for what he and his administration have done to my son. I do forgive him, but it is not my forgiveness he needs. In Jesus I remain always – A Heartbroken Parent of an Autistic Child.
I am praying for all I’m worth that Obama is our next President. Then maybe the separation of church and state guaranteed by our Constitution will be upheld once again. That means churches that use their 501C3 non-profit status in order to sway people’s political views will be withdrawn. I’m thinking that’s what Jesus would do.
Welcome, Jane.
I believe that the founding fathers would disagree with your assessment.
The phrase “the separation of church and state” does not appear in the constitution.
That phrase was actually used in a letter from president Thomas Jefferson to a group of New England Baptists. In the letter, he was assuring American Christians that the church could count on being protected from the state…..not the other way around!
It is only relatively recently that folks have tried to make “the separation of church and state” relevant to the church taking a back seat and being quiet about things.
But that takes the phrase in its original usage entirely out of context.
Pastor, my reason for voting for Obama is simple. Nothing else needs to be said other than I happen to KNOW he is God’s, will and it’s impossible for me to go against God whom I love dearly after saving and anointing me by His Amazing Grace. Praise His name! See website this refers to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp1xBUFjEB0
Blessings!
Has anyone seen the book Obama was reading recently? “The Post American World” by Fareed Zakaria. This doesn’t concern Christians???
“A government that can give you everything, can take everything from you.”
Julie I’m very sorry about your son. My boss has an autistic son and I see how difficult it is.
No, not everyone that says they’re a Christian is one. But, we are not perfect people, we all fall short of God’s glory. We are forgiven. We should look at church as a hospital for sinners. All Christian’s are running a race to the finish. Sometimes we fall, but we get up and keep going.
Pastor Tony our founding fathers would be shocked today!!
Jane,
A short comment here.
I belong to Pastor Tony’s church. Never once has he ever endorsed or criticized a candidate or a party. NEVER!!
This is his personal blog. He, as a citizen of the United States of America and as an individual he has the right to speak his mind on these issues just like you and me. To deny him that right would be wrong.
…..
What concerns ME most about what is going on in America….is that many want to see God take a back seat in everything….or for that matter eliminated from everything that is American.
If you are a Christian and don’t see that as a problem, then I politely ask you to review your early American history and reassess your thoughts.
All of us…Democrat and Republican and Independent….need to take a stand and write our Congressmen when Kingdom issues are a factor. I lean Republican, and I confess that I am as guilty of not writing. I need to heed my own advice.
…….
In closing, Jane…..let me remind you again. Pastor Tony never uses the pulpit to promote his political views. But he does use the pulpit to deal with Kingdom issues. To fail to do so would be irresponsible. (In fact, in our denomination….Southern Baptist….our entire denomination has Sunday School literature that devotes one Sunday in January to the sanctity of life…..I believe other denominations follow suit as well).
Again: NO NAMES OR PARTIES ARE EVER MENTIONED FROM THE PULPIT OF THE LOCAL CHURCH WHERE PASTOR TONY SERVES. YOU ALL NEED TO KNOW THAT.
nq5511 has left me speechless.
God help us.
nq5511- I’m sure God has not annointed Obama, a man that say’s there is more than one way to Heaven (as Christian’s we know there is only ONE way and that is Jesus). He supports abortion and partial birth abortion (if you’ve ever seen this, it’s pure evil). I don’t think so. God help us.
I can understand not voting for McCain. There is another alternative, Chuck Baldwin. Sorry, can’t get the Christain voting Obama thing. Not even a little.
If this is what Christianity in America is today, no wonder we’re in such moral decay. The majority of Christians won’t stand up against it.
If you are on this blog you have access to a computer. Google “Fairness Doctrine,” “Freedom of Choice Act,” “Black Liberation Theology.” That’s just a few. There is no excuse for ignorance on these issues. See how these few issues line up with the word of God.
“I’m sure God has not annointed Obama, a man that say’s there is more than one way to Heaven (as Christian’s we know there is only ONE way and that is Jesus). He supports abortion and partial birth abortion (if you’ve ever seen this, it’s pure evil). I don’t think so. God help us.”
this comment is almost as outrageous as nq5511’s comment. it blows me away that one of you knows that Obama is God’s will and the other is sure that Obama was not annointed by God. neither one of you know to be honest.
also, saying that obama is not annointed because he suports abortion is a ridiculous claim. if you go and make claims like that then i will in return make claims that anyone who is for the war in iraq is not a christian. and we both know that is not true but that is as crazy as your claim. being for or against abortion is not a litmus test for whether you are a believer or not. the litmus test of whether you are a believer is if you have given your life to christ and follow him. so be careful before you make claims like that. both men in the election are greatly flawed so let’s not put either one on a pedestial and act like we can judge their salvation.
Well then call me “ridiculous” Kevin, because I support the life of the unborn. I’d rather stand before God and take the stand for life than the other alternative.
By the way, our military is volunteer. Sometimes war is necessary.
Once you have given your life to Christ, you are a new creature, the old has passed away. You bear good fruit. Even the devil believes. It’s the changed life, not the one who believes.
I am judging no one’s salvation.
not every military is volunteer. just a reminder that we are not the only people group on earth for which we can express concern and compassion. lives lost in other countries are as valuable as lives lost from our own.
Re: this comment is almost as outrageous as nq5511’s comment. it blows me away that one of you knows that Obama is God’s will and the other is sure that Obama was not annointed by God. neither one of you know to be honest.
I’m nq5511 and have absolutely no concern about my comment being called outrageous. I’m in good company in fact:) The apostles thought the same thing or worse about Saul who was killing Christians – men, women, boys, and girls. Yet, he was truly chosen by the Lord to be an apostle and we wouldn’t have about 2/3 of the New Testament if it weren’t for the wisdom of our Lord. Yet, Peter truly wanted to know the truth and God’s true will was obviously very important to him. So, God revealed the truth in a dream. Yet, no matter what they thought, Saul who became Paul was still chosen. Just like Obama as president for God’s purposes. I wrote the book before anyone heard of Obama with copyright date in the 90’s. Because God had also shown me NY that happened Sept 11th, I was given a polygraph after I wrote the White House. The Secret Service expert with over 25 years experience under 3 presidents, found my polygraph SO TRUE, he IMMEDIATELY began confessing him sins. This is something God is doing, not me. I didn’t volunteer for this. I had turned into an athiest and TRULY understand His Amazing Grace and like He said in Isaiah 55:8,9, His ways are truly NOT our ways. No matter what, anything God does or ’said’ for His purposes, SHALL BE as in my case. Like He said “Let there be light” and there WAS light. God didn’t ask me to do anything. He said “YOU SHALL.” PHN!!!!! However, as a former unbeliever, I understand doubter perhaps more than anything. In fact, I was considered VERY smart until God showed me how much I didn’t know – my ignorance. Took all of that mess out of my head. Humbled me – Praise His Name!!!!!!
The day when people succumb to a strong delusion seems to be right at our door. We prefer to have our ears tickled instead of the truth. When the economy crashes, our social programs will have no source if we depend on the government and political parties. God’s blessings must not be taken as though we deserve them.
Re: When the economy crashes, our social programs will have no source if we depend on the government…
Have faith Marilyn, God is our source. With God ALL things are possible. Before we got in this trouble, God knew. NOTHING is too hard for the Lord, our God. We are loved, I wouldn’t be alive today if it weren’t for His love, power, and Amazing Grace. Remember. John 3:16
says “For God so LOVED the world… God is with us, I PROMISE! Even to the end of the world. Did you ever sing God Bless America in school? I did. And we’ve been heard. God even told Moses He had heard their cries in Egypt. Trust God. You are loved beyond your wildest dreams, Marilyn. OK?
Blessings!
pastor tony,
i am a 25-year-old theology school graduate with a bachelor’s in bilblical studies.
i have attended church my entire life. i have always considered myself a republican. but i realize now that was because i was voting my parents’ beliefs. i did not know the issues other than what we were always told to care about – abortion and same-sex marriage. now i am not sure what i am.
i am adopted, as are two of my siblings, so i feel very personally vested in the issue of alternative options to abortions. however, abortions did go down during clinton, and they went down less during bush. how many people have died in bush’s war? (sorry, this is not why i am posting.)
i am still not sure who i will vote for, and i am carefully researching each candidate’s stances on each issue – and what i believe on each issue – and which one’s are equal or greater than other issues. if i could put each one of the issues on a point-system and do a calculation, this whole thing would be very much easier! THIS IS NOT AN EASY DECISION. everyone should make this decision after extreme consideraton of all of the issues.
i stumbled upon your blog asking born-again christians who are voting for obama to tell you why they are doing so. i was excited at first because i thought that it would be a safe place where people could really share the process they were going through while making their decisions, but then all i saw from you in response to their posts was you putting them down for sharing their hearts. it is already hard as a christian to go against what is expected of them and make a decision based on other things beside same sex marriage and abortion and you did not make that blog an open forum for people to share their well thought out and difficult decisions. i ended up extremely disappointed as i realized it was more like an opportunity for you to argue with them, than listen to them.
it is hard to know exactly what the republicans even believe. it seems both parties tactics are to take the opposite stand on whatever their rival is. its all very disappointing.
I don’t think anyone has been put down because they are voting for Obama. But when people grossly misuse the Word of God, believers should be coming down hard on them. What I would love to hear is someone outline and stand by Obama’s tax policy, his foreign policy, his energy policy. I haven’t heard much about these issues. But I have heard a lot of “God told me to vote for him”, “I happen to know he is God’s Will”, “Obama will heal our nation”, “He displays the fruit of the spirit”, “He’s a Christian”. Let’s hear some substance rather than emotion.
I entered this conversation as a McCain supporter, but I am now leaning toward third party or write in. I am shocked that John McCain would vote for a bail out bill with $150 million in sweeteners, ridiculous extras! Then he proposes $300 of the $700 billion to help out “hurting” home owners. As a fiscal conservative and a firm believer in personal responsibility and accountability I am extremely disappointed…..
Banks have been nationalized. With Obama health care will be next, even though we can’t afford it. Then it will be the transportation industry. That’s scary, folks. The government has so blown it and rather than citizens saying “Enough!”. Stop spending my money, my kid’s money and voting these bums out, we are positioned to elect the most socialist president this country has seen in decades.
Our family is relocating to England at the beginning of the year for a short term international assignment. We have discussed how strange it will be to live under Socialism. If Obama wins, our time in the UK will be great practice for when we repatriate in three years.
I refer to the delusion that allows people to fail to see truth or hear God’s voice, while placing so much confidence in a political party that they overlook the moral decline of our Nation and think that God does not care. Look at the parties and see which platform has gone south. When we stand for what is right, we can expect all areas of our lives to be affected and as we lift up Christ (not Obama), we can see people drawn to Him.
I’ve just joined the conversation, but I’ll start by answering the questions that started this discussion rather than joining the fray. For now.
I am a Christian, not affiliated with either party, who has split my vote in the last two presidential elections. I studied theology at a conservative Christian college and teach English at conservative Christian schools.
I will be voting for Barack Obama. While I believe that abortion wrong, I have a broader understanding of what it means to be “pro-life”; I refuse to become a one- or two-issue voter. I vote by looking at the issues that most concern me: Abortion, foreign policy (esp. militarism), the environment, policies toward poverty, a few others. I look at the stand of the candidates on these issues AS THEY APPLY TO THE ACTUAL POWER OF THAT CANDIDATE TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THEM. Why vote for a pro-life mayor when a mayor can do nothing about abortion?
I am also concerned about the way the Republican party has used religion to manipulate voters. George W. Bush does not attend church in Washington D.C., and John McCain has never had a visible faith life. These men’s comments about their faith have been simplistic. I know these are superficial acts, but they may be indicators of something deeper. Obama’s testimonies are eloquent, and while his pastor has some ideas with which I do not agree, the same can be said of my own Pastor. And perhaps even of members of Pastor Tony’s congregation.
One more comment: Wikipedia overstates a bit when it says Black liberation theology is only about God’s concern for Blacks. All forms of liberation theology posit that God is always on the side of the oppressed. It’s hard to argue against that, scripturally.
Whom you should vote for is another opportunity to work out your faith in “fear and trembling.” May you wrestle with this choice honestly and be at peace with God in your decision.
Dutch,
Are you suggesting that there are members of the congregation I am so blessed to lead that don’t agree with me 100% of the time on 100% of the issues?
Blasphemy!!!
[...] Christians who are voting for Obama. I was intrigued to learn a new term called Kingdom Issues. Pastor Tony indicates that Kingdom Issues are Abortion and [...]
i just learned a new term this week called “real americans”. i thought that one was interesting too.
“those who are convicted of capital offenses that they did not commit should die?”
Haven’t you heard? Eveyone on death row is innocent….just ask them.
“Real Americans” are those racist rednecks clinging to their guns and religion. They are therefore not enlightened enough to make an intelligent decision in the voting booth. Good thing we have brilliant politicians on both sides willing to tell us how our money is best spent. Let’s spread the opportunity around!
My conclusion: McCain and Obama are taking our country in the very same direction, bigger government. The destination will be the same, the path will be different though. They both voted for the obscene bailout bill, they both have proposed buying up bad mortgages (let’s reward irresponsible homeowners!), support nationalizing banks (giving the government even more power),their solution to the soaring college tuition….more loans! Let’s make sure that every college graduate leaves school with enormous amounts of debt that they can’t pay.
I just hope American survives the next four years for a Huckabee comeback.
wow. again, sir, i think that you are not speaking from experience. not everyone on death row is guilty of a capital crime. if you research this, you will realize that innocent men, have in fact, been executed as a result of the error of the courts and the people. now with dna testing available, we have been able to prove that. the sarcasm with which you lay out this claim that they all claim to be innocent is painful to me because that is not true. there are men, and perhaps some women, on death row who are honorably confessing to their sins, and attempting to change behaviors as to live the last days of their lives in a respectful, dignified way. please respect their changes of heart and changes of behavior.
emily. i agree with the bigger government sentiment. i also believe that both candidates are taking that aspect of the country in a similar direction.
Pastor Tony,
Thanks for this blog. Am one of the crazy reader who loves reading about the presidential election. It sure is interesting.
1. Born again
2. None
3. Economy, War, a president must care about the people and his country, think before he speak and a man of values. Of course, we must never judge a book by his cover.
4. Obama. I agree with his stand on war and how he is going to conduct himself with countries we have issues with. I don’t like cold wars. He has better judgment when it comes to economy and has conducted this campaign well. I like his company too – Joe Biden, Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Powell, and the fact that figures in the news world like Anderson Cooper, Zakaria support him. Its very important to know his supporters.
I have question for you pastor Tony, may be I missed if you have replied to this but the thread is too long to read and its the same old dialogue again and again. So please do answer me or point me to your answer.
you said earlier may be towards the beginning of comments when someone asked about the will of God if either wins
Pastor Tony says: “I believe that the end of our next president’s first term of office will say much about answering the question of whether or not it is “God’s will”.
Do you think it was will of God that Bush was the president? Did you vote for Bush then?
Pastor Tony says:::”I believe that the end of our next president’s first term of office will say much about answering the question of whether or not it is “God’s will”.”
I had like to know do you think it was God;s will that Bush was the president. Do you think he was a good choice now that his term is ending? Did you vote for him?
Ugh, the Calvinist in me dreads where jeneNY is going to take this conversation.
JeneNY-
Welcome to the blog. First time commentor? Regardless, welcome.
I voted for “W” in 2000 and 2004. As disappointed as I’ve been in his presidency generally, given the options of “W”, Gore, Kerry, or Obama…I’d vote for Bush again (if I could).
I do believe that Bush handled the days immediately following 9/11 well. I believe that he’s been an honorable man, though lackluster, during his days in office.
It is my conviction that if Gore had been in office during 9/11, we may very well be speaking Arabic as our national language. Yeah, really.
Apart from the two supreme court nominations, I’ve been disappointed that Bush has not been more proactive in the pro-life cause.
In answer to your question, I firmly believe that it was God’s will for Bush to be our president these last 8 years. But I struggle with whether or not it was His perfect will or His permissive will.
All things equal (they aren’t, but let’s assume for a moment that they are), I believe that Alan Keyes would be an excellent president. He’s a Reagan-esque, throwback conservative who is strong on national security, national sovereignty, the fair tax, and the rights of the unborn. Mike Huckabee is also a guy behind whom I could throw my unequivocal support.
I will be voting against Obama on Nov. 4th.
“In answer to your question, I firmly believe that it was God’s will for Bush to be our president these last 8 years. But I struggle with whether or not it was His perfect will or His permissive will.”
Well put, Pastor.
Thanks for your reply.
If Obama wins this election, I would believe it was God’s will to elect Bush because the only reason he wins is cause of the growing disappointed in Bush and McCain has always favored him till few days ago when he totally denounced Bush.
If today the presidency of Bush was really praiseworthy nobody would care much about Obama but he does have an edge cause of 8 yrs of Bush.
Well God’s will could be interpreted in anyway as long as whatever happens we find hope and positive attitude in it The idea is to have hope knowing He loves us. I cannot say it was God’s will or not because no matter what happens God has a way to make things work out for good for those who love him.
colin powell’s endorsement of obama was a strong statement. any thoughts?
Bush filled his Godly mandate by putting in two new Supreme Court Judges. Those appointments will be W’s legacy and produce good fruit long after he is gone.